From Tokyo Kissaten to Paris Cafés, A Book Lover’s Coffee Life: S8E5

Yuki and I sat down to have this conversation far too long ago. Life has been crazy and, to be honest, I even stopped drinking coffee for awhile. So it felt weird publishing this episode during that time.

But things feel a little more frothy these days, so here it is! And here SHE is:)

Yuki has sought out, enjoyed and brewed coffee in many locations globally. She's more known for her Book Nerd Tokyo Instagram account cause she's also a bookworm (yet another reason to adore her) but you'll often see coffee in her IG posts as well.

Cause books and coffee go very well together.

But if you're reading this, you are well aware of this glorious pairing.

Let me tell you a few things you don't already know.

Original publication date: February 9, 2022

More: https://linktr.ee/stephfuccio

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hey there, this is Steph from Steph4Geo.com with another episode of Geopaths for Coffee. I am so excited today to bring to you Yuki from uh Book Nerds, Tokyo. And she was on Geopath's Book for Oh gosh, what, a year, year and a half ago? I don't know. COVID time is still uh penetrating my head, so it's hard to remember exactly, but I'll put the link in the show notes for you. Uh and on that episode, we talked about coffee for the first time. Just a second, but there was joy in her voice. And I knew she had to come back and talk to me because in the book episode, a book episode to Jana, our guest host, on that episode. So here I am talking to Yuki. But actually, before we get to that, I do want to tell you a couple of things happening with the podcast. It's been a little touch and go on keeping this one going because of a lack of a guest. So if you know somebody who travels the world or know something very specific about coffee or where they are that's outside of preferably uh North America, that would be amazing. I would love to talk to them. I do want to keep this podcast going. Just uh drop me an email, find me on social media. I'm S T E P or F U C C I O. Literally everywhere, and that is my email address. Also there is a absolutely amazing Instagram account. And I save that. Okay, it's mine, right? But it's Geopath's Coffee's account. And the people that make the coffees are not me. So this is not me boasting. But I just take pictures of the coffee that I have every day and I put them on the account, and over 2,000 people are following it. So it it must be an okay grid, right? So I'd like you to join it too. So if you just go over to Instagram and do a quick search for Geopath or Coffee, you'll find us. Join us. Take a look at my grid or share some of your coffee. Let me know you're listening to this podcast. I also have a million other podcast projects going on, and you can find them all at stefffoodgeo.com. I also offer podcast editing services, other podcast auditing services, and so much more. There's a lot going on. I love podcasts and I love that you are listening to this podcast. So anyway, let's get to the coffee of global goodness, shall we? Here is Yuki and I'm chatting about you know that thing, that liquid thing that we like. Coffee.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Thank you so much, Yuki, for joining us over here on the Geopaths Coffee Podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here. For those of you who listen to a variety of the Geopaths Podcast Network podcasts, you may recognize Yuki's voice in Geopath Focus last year when she came on and talked with uh guest host Tatiana. So it's a double pleasure to have you back on. Thank you. That was so much fun. That was so much fun to listen to. Yeah. We couldn't stop talking. And that was, yeah. Thank you for having me on again. Oh no, it's a pleasure. Like uh the reason why you're here today is because there was a moment in that when I was editing that episode when I heard coffee come up and it sounded like joy. And I was like, oh, return guest, she's gotta come back and talk about coffee. Yes, yes, yes. This is my one of my favorite topics in the world besides books. Me too. Me too. I started a coffee Instagram account last year to support this podcast, and that's way more active than the podcast itself. And let me tell you, in the morning, when I'm having my coffee, or even if I just have tea that day, I'll scroll through and just look at pictures of coffee, and it's such a sense of calm. Yes. Absolutely. I every single day in my if you look at my Instagram too, there's always a cup of coffee, never without it. That's the first thing that I do is decide which which cup to use, which mug to use, and then I decide what I'm gonna take a picture of. Oh, the mug choice is important. Yes, the mug is first. Yes. Are you drinking anything right now? I am right now. I'm just drinking hot water because it's 6 p.m. Oh yeah. It's in that right between right in between time where it's too late for coffee, but a little early for my wine or whatever. Drink, nighttime drink. It's Friday night here. So so yeah, I'm just right it is Friday night. Oh, thank you for doing this on a Friday night. I I mean per perpetual blur's day, so it didn't even dawn on me it was a weekend. Thank you. Oh yeah. No, absolutely. Fridays don't mean anything anymore. I would be here anyway at home. Oh my gosh. Okay, well, we usually do a perfunctory uh sip of whatever beverage we're working on. So I know it's water, not coffee, because of the time of day, but would you mind doing a um would you be able to do a very loud, obnoxious sip of your beverage? Let's see if I can do that. All right, let's do it on three, two, one. All right, oh, A plus does. Nicely done. That's not easy to do with water, so I'm impressed. In Japan, they they really make a big thing about big deal about um slipper. You're like you're supposed to drink tea with with a loud slurp and soups and gamen and stuff, and I can't do it. And so we were because we were trained not to not to make sounds with our soup. So whenever I go out to eat, everyone around me is always eating so loudly and slipping their soup so loudly, and I'm just sitting there quietly nibbling my my noodles. Oh my gosh. See, I'm I'm the polar opposite. I got used to that because we lived in Asia for I want to say almost 15 years in different countries. And in most of them, it was a sign of respect and that you appreciated what you were drinking when you slurped your soup. And so it's it's sort of like me riding a scooter in Asia versus me riding a scooter in the US. I couldn't do it after riding in like Vietnam and Taiwan because rules weren't really rules there. So if I rode in the US, it'd be dangerous for everyone. Same thing with soup. I can't really have soup in public in the West because I will slurp automatically now. Right, right, right. It's it's so funny. Habit is so funny. My my husband, he he slurps his his pasta, his spaghetti. And I'm like, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. He's Japanese, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. It's so funny what parts it it spreads out to, what parts it doesn't. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. Well, let's get back to beverage. So, okay, I know you were on the other on Geopet's books. I know you were on Geopet's books, but let's do a quick rundown of your Geopatness. So, in list form, if possible, where what places in the world or yeah, we'll start with places, what places in the world have you lived? So I was born in Tokyo but moved to LA when I was four, grew up in LA, stayed until 20 when I until I was 24 when I moved to Okinawa for 10 years to work. Um, and then I moved to New York for for four years, and then now I'm in Tokyo, and it's coming on my seventh year in Tokyo. Wow. Okay. And um are there any other places or cultures that you've been to but haven't lived for long stretches that have made an impression on you? Oh, definitely European. I haven't been um able to stay for very long, but you know, a month stay here, a month stay there in Paris, and just the the coffee culture there, and then um cafe culture. Anywhere where there is a a great cafe culture, I will happily uh live there for for months at a time, years if I can. So you mentioned Paris. Is that the main place in Europe or were there some others? Yeah, Paris and then just other places were just quick, quick jaunts, quick visits that I couldn't I couldn't claim to to be to have stayed for very long. But Paris is the one one where I stayed. I rented an apartment and stayed for a little while. Wow. Um yeah, but it's mostly for me has been LA, New York, and Japan. Back and forth, back and forth between those three spaces, those three locations. Quick question. Do you ever say by coastal when you talk about living in New York and LA? I have never said that. I just I tend I do I do say East Coast, West Coast, or um New York LA, but I've never said by coastal. Yeah, I don't know where I picked it up, but I started to say it, and my husband, who's from Idaho, which is so not coastal, um just like kind of pokes at me, like, oh, you buy coastal, so like he makes fun of me. But I thought it was actually a quick way to say multiple places, but meh. Anyway, maybe they have a darker connotation than I that I'm aware of. Anyway, sidetrack. So um you said if because of the time of day, it's evening there, you're not drinking coffee now. But what do you normally make in the morning? Drip, I just uh do a hand drip coffee every morning, ground my beans, and then do I love so the first thing that I do in the morning is is put a pot of water on the on the stove and turn it on, and that's the and then I I go and brush my teeth and wash my face and do all that. I just wait for water to boil and then I do a hand drip. Um, and yeah, just black coffee, nothing in it, no sugar, no milk, no cream, nothing like that. Yay. So by hand drip, do you mean the cone or do you have another contraption? It's a cone, it's the one of those paper filter cones. Okay, we have to know the color or the material. Is it plastic? Walk us through this. Yeah, it's a it's a ceramic, um, it's a dark blue ceramic coffee filter that my husband found um when he was traveling around Japan. And there's so many wonderful ceramic towns in Japan where they have their own style of of pottery and ceramics. And I don't remember which town this was, but he came back with it. Um and I've happily been using that. Um, and it's just big enough for one um one person. So if I if he's up and I'm pouring two, I'll just pour one at a time. Beautiful. And because it was handmade, did the filters fit in there okay, or is it a little bit? The filters are a little big, like but but um yeah, I've tried different col I've tried different sizes. I've tried the filters for for one to two cups and the and the three to four cups, and and I think it's it's okay as long as it's it's it's not over and as long as I don't put it in too much hot water, it's it's fine. It works. Gotcha. Have you experimented with other ways of making it? No, everywhere I go, I I have my own kind of bean grinder and I buy, yeah, I just I just I love the hand drip. My friend did get me one of those Nespresso um latte machines, latte making machines. Yeah, yeah, as a wedding gift, um, as a wedding gift a couple years ago. And and while while it's delicious, it it really is delicious. I think I just prefer in the morning to have a bigger cup of coffee than the than the small in the small espresso shots. Those are great, but I'm all about the okay, I just need a big mug full of coffee. So I tend to just do the black coffee. Sure, sure, sure, sure. And what kind of roast do you usually get? What kind of beef? I I'm not into the high acidity, so I think I like a full roast more than a city roast. Um, I tend to go on the on the darker end. Um yeah, I I'm I'm fine with with bitter and dark, but I'm not good with the acidic kind of sour sourness.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Do you have a favorite region that you like, a region or country or whatnot that you like? Guatemala is one that I keep going back to. Yeah, I keep going back to whenever whenever I I order coffee, I I uh drink coffee out um just in a cafe or somewhere. And if I didn't specify Guatemala and I get it, and if I'd like it, I usually ask what it is, and it it tends to always be Guatemala. Uh-huh. So I I realized that that, yeah, that this is my favorite. This is probably one of my favorite regions. Me too. Me too, absolutely. When I was in Shanghai last, oh, I can't say last year anymore, but I was in Shanghai two years ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they there was one Starbucks that was trying out um a roast from Weiwei to Nango, which nobody knows unless you've been there. It's like in the if you're looking at Guatemala, it's in the west northern part, just before you hit Mexico, way up in the mountains. This is a super small, like border town. And um, and oh my gosh, it was really good. I was very, very, very surprising. I was like, wait, wait, Starbucks has this, but nobody else does. Wait, what's happening? Right, right, right. Yeah, it's upside down. But I was really excited because I I also like love Guatemalan roasts, especially the ones that have a chocolatey. Yes. So even when I switch brands, I just I I always try their Guatemala to see if that's a brand that I want to stay with. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, so it's your go-to kind of tester for that. Yeah, yeah. I think my my my tongue knows the the Guatemala that I like. Very true, very true. This is sounding very, very coffee snobbish. That's what we're here for. Well, but we don't judge, but we do get specific because we do have preferences. I mean, our our taste buds are what they are, and you can't you can't fight it. I mean, I'm not gonna judge anybody that likes what's the coffee I don't like. I would j I would judge somebody that actively only drinks the Nespresso stuff. It's it's something I have to I have to admit.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

But I appreciate I understand the convenience. However, okay, wait, talking about the Nespresso stuff, how is that different than what's the other one where you put the pod in and it has different oh mine I don't know what the other one that you're talking about is, but mine has the pods. It can't it came with the pods and you just stick the pods in there. Yeah. Oh, what is it? But I haven't I haven't bought more. I just have used the ones that that came with and I enjoyed them, and and I I don't know, I don't know why I didn't I didn't go out and buy more pods. I think I just prefer the black coffee. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's probably a big difference in the coffee that's in the pot or something. I don't know. But there was a machine that is I think it's still really popular that does something similar to the Nespresso, but you can also put in teapods and like other things, not just coffee. But I don't know what it's called. I don't know. I don't know about that. So when you go out and have coffee, do you stick to just black coffee that's that strip coffee, or do you have anything else? Actually, it's it's when I go out and buy coffee, I tend to that's when I tend to buy the the lattes and the cappuccinos because I can't make them at home in the way that that I I I like. Yep, yep, where where it's really frothy and and yeah, so that's that's when I tend to to to drink the espresso drinks when I go out. But it also depends on time of day, how how full I am, um, how much I need to concentrate, if I'm there to, if at it, if I'm trying to get some work done, how cold it is outside. Sometimes when it's really cold, the the milky drinks tend to warm me up more than yeah, more than the black coffee. So I will get a piping hot cappuccino, burn my tongue, but kind of love that if it's really cold. I agree. Okay, I'm really glad you said that because you were going for core black coffee for a while, but because I when it is winter, I need frothy milk. Yes, it's just it's the best. Yeah, and not at home, clearly. Yeah, because at foam, no matter what kind of espresso machine I've tried, no matter what kind of technique or using the um the French French roast, no, what's it called? French press to make it frothy, nothing works right. They're magical in coffee shops. I don't know how they do it. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I just love that whole experience of of the the sound, the worrying sound in the coffee shop and the yeah, I just yeah, I I do love it. I do love it. Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, I miss coffee shops. I know, I know that's what I miss the most. I know. Like I'm going to some here in Tirana, Albania, but I'm going to the outside once for obvious reasons, pandemic and all that. So I don't hear the sounds while they're making stuff. I'm just outside kind of looking as they're doing it. Right, right, right. Same, same. Yeah. And I look forward to doing oh, sorry, go ahead. I'm just saying, I haven't sat in a cafe and just for hours and read or or worked or anything in in yeah, obviously, in the past year. Yeah, me neither. It's been a lot of takeout. But yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I can't wait. I have never, I don't think I've done no, I haven't done any coffee interviews in a coffee shop. So I would I look forward to doing that in the future. I will bring the equipment, I will do it happily. Oh, with the sounds in the background, that would be amazing. Right, right, because I started doing the coffee interviews after things got funky. So I haven't had the chance to do that. Like I have some language, like GeoPet language episodes. I have accidentally, I just met people in coffee shops because it just felt safer to invite inviting complete strangers to talk about language at my home, then I'm like, let's just go to the coffee shop. So there were residual coffee sounds in the background, but it doesn't match the content. So I'd love to have that pairing in the future. Oh yeah. Oh, I love that. I just imagine that and just yeah. I did like to put I could put artificial sounds in, like I can take them out from the other ones and put it in, but it just doesn't feel right. No, no, no. You can you can you can you know when it's real and there are the voices and yeah, exactly, yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, so uh what are your thoughts on foam art? Foam art very high police question. I don't need it, yeah, but you know, I'll smile when when I have when I'm handed a latte with a beautiful foam art. Um, some people are really talented, and and I I'm I make sure to tell them how talented they are, and I make sure to thank them. And yeah, it's it just brings a smile to my face. So kind. Okay. So I've been seeing some multicolor foam art recently in my Instagram feed, and my knee-jerk reaction is color doesn't exist, it should be brown and white. And I don't know why I'm having this reaction, but I see like things with like four or five colors, and it's almost like a painting. And I it obviously took time and effort, but for some reason I'm resisting. I don't know what it what do you what it what what are the colors? What are the colors made from? What are they made of? Right, maybe that's what my reaction is is I'm thinking it's it's gonna pollute it. It it's gotta be food coloring, I think. Right? Oh, okay. How about have you seen? I've had my face on a latte art once a photo of me. Yes, those are so wow, that was that was interesting. This is in Hawaii in Hollow. I had a cup of coffee and the and the burst uh was like, Do you have a photo of yourself? Um I can I can put on on your latte. And I had no idea what he was talking about. And so I looked through my phone and I was like, here, sure, try this. And then he did, and and my latte had a face of me on it. And that was like that was an interesting experience, right? Yeah. My husband and I did that when we were in Hong Kong visiting and uh paid quite a bit for it. Where that's either they scanned it or something. I guess they gave the picture and they scanned it and they put us on there. And then I when it came to the table, I realized we have to sift ourselves to get through the coffee.

unknown 21:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

So weird.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Very meta thing of taking a photo of a photo of you on a coffee. It's just so bizarre. But then, you know, the the burst was so again, just really nice and accommodating. So I was like, sure, why not? How's fun? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm glad I did it once, but I I was not fully prepared for my reaction to it. Right, right, right. It was it was so expensive that I'm like, well, one, I'm kind of curious how it tastes, and two, uh, we just spent money on this, so I'm I'm going to consume this because it is still coffee and I love coffee. But it was very strange to see and how perfectly the picture came out, too. Yes, yes. That's that oh, I still don't understand how that works. But yeah, it was immediately based on the on the phone. Oh my gosh. Okay, so latte art tends to be a lot of flowers, and I'm not exactly sure how as a culture as a global coffee culture we've landed on that. But have you seen other things that are not typical latte art pictures? Bunnies, bears, cats, lots of animals in Japan. They you know how they love the kawaii, that everything's cute. Um a lot of yeah, that's those are the ones that have caught my attention. Are the are the little bunnies and the and the and the cats and the and the puppies. Yeah. Oh, also hard to drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're in the land of a 3D foam art too. Have you had many of those? I've not had what? No, I have not had one. Probably because just I haven't been going to cafes, but yeah, I've I've seen them in in magazines. That's funny. Okay, can you can you see the chat here? I can. Okay. I just found a picture of the um one of the multicolored latte arts, and I want you to verbalize your reaction as you open it, if you don't mind. Okay, I'm opening it now. I'm opening it now. Okay. Rainbow latte art. Yeah, I don't know about the coloring. It's just so vivid and so oh, I don't know. It doesn't really look like coffee to me. It looks like paint, it looks like just watercolor. Maybe it's just the artificialness of the taste that we're anticipating. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't think I need this very much. I like I like my brown. I like my brown and just foamy, creamy. Yeah, but I did if I was in a coffee shop and they did it automatically, I'd probably take a ton of pictures because it would be a one-off and I'd never order that coffee again. But as a standard, I don't think I would lean towards that. This does look like something that would happen in Japan as well, in Tokyo, in Harajuku or something. Although my one, my one like 3D foam art was actually in Los Angeles. Oh, really? Yeah, it was uh where was it even? I think it was near downtown. I don't even know. We were just wandering uh strategically bus wandering one day, and that makes no sense. How can you strategically wander, but whatever. Um and we ended up at this cafe, or maybe it was in Japan Town, because we went to a couple of coffee specialty coffee shops in an in the neighborhood, but it was so long ago now. But I it was the first time I saw it on the menu. It had the pictures with the Japanese and the English. It must have been in Japan town. Right. I can I can I can see that happening, yes, definitely. Yeah, yeah. It was just it was hard to it was hard to drink because it's not like you could kind of I mean you could kind of scoop because it was a dog. I could scoop and eat the dog first and then go in, but that felt kind of weird. The moral dilemmas of faux marks dilemma's dilemmas. Wow, that could be traumatizing. Right. Well, let's let's expand out and actually let's go back to to past coffee Yugi. When did you first fall in love with coffee? I think I actually didn't have it until I was in my 20s and working and needing something to stay up in the to get to, you know, when I wrote when I woke up, I just needed something. And I think my first was just a I usually had my lattes at at Starbucks or whatever. And then one day in my mid-20s, I decided I was gonna go for the Pike Place or whatever the um the black coffee is, and I drank it and I felt so adult and sophisticated. But yeah, so it was pretty late, I think. Um but since then I've just gone. I don't have a sweet tooth. I I don't really, I'm not I don't need the sugary stuff so much, so I don't, so I just really like black coffee without any sugar, without any any anything sweet. Yeah. And you mentioned, if we could um globally hop for a second, you mentioned the Paris coffee shop scene, the coffee scene, the LA scene. I'm that I imagine there is one in New York. I was a kid when we left New York, so I'm not too familiar with the coffee scene there. And then over in Tokyo, if you were to compare Paris, LA, New York, and Tokyo, like their coffee scenes, this is gonna be sweeping generalizations, but what would you say are the biggest differences in their coffee scenes? Hmm. The Tokyo coffee scene that I I think is really fascinating. Of course, there are the the third wave, um, all of the kind of hip hipster um brands from all over the world are here, and those are those are those are fine. But the old step-in culture, which is the old kind of retro coffee shops from the that have been open for 70, 80, 90 years, they the coffee that they serve is so rich and dark, and and they come in these small cups, not not they're not espresso cups, but they do come in these these relatively small cups. And at first, I you know, I'm so used to just coming from LA and used to American sizes, I would go into these coffee shops and order a coffee, and it would cost about 600 yen, about six dollars just generally. Um generalization. But um and they were they would come in these tiny cups. And at first I was like, wow, they're so small. What you know, why? But then you would take a sift and it was so it was just so dark and rich, I realized that oh, I could never drink a whole like a whole tumbler of this or a whole mug of of this. So the the coffee here is in Tokyo is so the coffee that they call coffee is really dark. And the coffee that we drink um in the States, they call American coffee. They call it so when you go into a restaurant and you if you order an American, that's when you get what we in America think is black coffee. And I I do actually prefer that because it's just it's more and it's not as dark. Um, I I with the thin coffee, the black coffee, I usually tend to have to put a little cream into it because it's just so it's so dark and it's so bitter. Yeah, so Japan has a very, very long coffee culture, but I think it's it's really transforming because of the third way of coffee, um, all the brands from from the states and from Australia and from Europe. Um maybe not so much Europe, but yeah, I think the the the to-go cups are are relatively new here. It's a Western thing that that started in Japan. But other than that, I mean it's things are I don't know. I don't know if there's there's so much. I mean, Paris has a very unique coffee culture or this where they just go and everyone has their their espresso in their their shots in the morning. Um but yeah, I don't know. I whenever I go to a new a new town, first thing I do is I just go to their cafes and their bookstores, and that's kind of how I learn about the city, about the way people live. So, but yeah, I'm still I'm still learning about about coffee. I want to be, I don't think I have, I'm just a a drinker of coffee, but I don't really know anything about it. So I I would love to learn more and learn about the culture. And that's what I feel like I'm doing that in Tokyo, I'm doing that in Japan, but I don't really know about the other about the other cities. That's a good point. That's probably something that should be incorporated into the name of this podcast, is it we're not experts by any stretch of the imagination. I don't actually I've had coffee people in the coffee industry reach out, and I'm just like, no, we're not, we're not, we're not getting into the nitty-gritty expert area. We're we're getting coffee just, we're coffee lovers who like to seek it out, like you mentioned. When we go to a new place, it's one of the things that we we do to discover that place is to drink the coffee there. Very good place. Absolutely, yeah. For me too, it's coffee shops, bookstores, and if they're open and I can go in the library, local libraries. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, so okay, so if I went into a coffee shop, we're gonna go visual for a second. So if I went into a coffee shop in Paris, LA, New York, and Tokyo, what would be the thing that would let us know that we're in the place that we're in? If that made any sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like what would tip us off that we're in Tokyo versus Paris versus New York kind of thing? What would be in the shop that we tell? I think it would be in the kind of the styles and fashion and the behaviors of the customers of the people drinking the coffee. Dig into that, yeah. Yeah. How you know it's really casual in in the states where everyone is just, they just have their laptops and their they have their t-shirts and and just really casual. Um, everything is kind of sprawled out all over the place, and and it's kind of like an extension of their home. Versus in in Tokyo, you would never see that. I mean, there are there are the the shops that people go to to work. Um, there are a lot of freelancers and a lot of people who look who work in cafes, but because of, well, before before COVID, because there's just there are just so many people in in Tokyo, they they sometimes have to have time, and it's 90 minutes or two hours. Um, and we can't stay for longer than that because of they need to, they need the turnover. So I think in that way it's just a it's very relaxed in LA. Um, it's it's relaxed, you can find relaxed places in Tokyo as well, but I'm always looking for a place to work. And I've noticed that that um yeah, not not all places welcome the laptop crew and the and the staying for hours crew and the and the meeting outlets and Wi-Fi crews.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Yeah. So I think it's it's it's really all it's in the kind of the the expressions and the attitudes of the of the clientele, I think. Yeah, that's a good point. I did when I was in Tokyo, I did have to lean more towards the dours to stay longer in a coffee shop than the specialty places. And the doc the coffee, you know, isn't really the strong point in those places. Exactly. Yeah, I really I I don't go to a lot of chain um coffee chains here in Tokyo because just the quality of the coffee. But you're right, if you want to stay for a couple hours at a time, if you're really desperate and you just need Wi-Fi or place there, yeah. Or yeah, you will see me go into a Starbucks and order a hozita. Like, I won't order a coffee, I'll order like a tea, a black tea. Yeah. You'll see me drinking. Or the short size of a coffee. Because I love that they had there are so many Starbucks I've been in that they don't have this super small size, but they have the short size in Japan. And I'm like, fine, I'll invest in that so I can sit here for a little bit. Right, right. Or a long bit. That's hilarious. So funny. Okay, so the the behavior of the people. How about the look of the place? Does that vary a lot in the places that you've been to? Yeah, that that really varies. I think obviously the the the whole landscape is changing now in the world as we speak. But in Japan, there are just there, there's yeah, there's a there's a real strong culture with the retro coffee shops, but those are have closed before COVID, before the pandemic, just with the with the influx of of all the the big coffee chains, the trendy coffee hip coffee chains have come in. And and because more more people are looking for places that they can stay for longer and and work and read and and talk and have meetings and um things like that, I think the the space has become the spaces have become more kind of the big windows and the airy, the white. Um everything's really airy and bright and and sunny. And while that's great, I don't tend to go to those. I I go to those when I'm in LA because I feel like they're very LA, the the spacious kind of big windows and like um the intelligentsia in Venice Beach, where it's just people are are are there, kind of um everyone's having meeting or everyone is is working and and it's kind of a big warehouse type space. And I don't mind that. I love it because it's LA, but when I see that in Tokyo, when I see a Brooklyn-inspired something in Tokyo, I'm like, no, this belongs from Brooklyn or this belongs in Portland. You know, I would love it if this was in Portland, but I don't think I need it here in Rokongi or Shibuya. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I tend to I tend to avoid those places. I don't know, not not on purpose. I just which which cafes do I find myself at? I find myself at kind of the the mid-size, um, you know, maybe the coffee is a little bit pricier than than other places, but you get to know the owner and they know you, they know that you know you will order more than one cup of coffee if you're if you're there for longer than an hour or two. Um yeah, I think the there's a a wide variety of cafes and various spaces here. Oh my gosh, they're so good. They're so good. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now where I have where I have maybe 10 magazines titled and books titled Tokyo Cafe Book. Tokyo Cafe Collection. Because they just yeah, I mean they keep coming out with new new magazines, new books, new new guides, and I buy them all because I always want to know what's what's amazing the heck out of me. Um the first time I went to Tokyo. Now granted, I've I've never been fluent in Japanese, so for me it's it's been um searching for stuff in English and and using not even smartphones but cell phones that were provided by an employer and have limited uh uh functionality and things like that. So I've I've had a very isolated view of it while I was there. But but the first time I was in Tokyo was 2009, and I just remember the coffee being hmm, they had it had caffeine in it. But each time we went back, each time we went back, the coffee got better and better, and then two or three years in, it started to get amazing. Like the specialty shops started to be really easily accessible, and the the types of things they were doing were even better than any place else I've been, and it just it just exploded and it was so exciting to watch and to literally experience and so yeah. Like the last time I was there, I was there was the last time we lived in Tokyo, we were I wanna say we lived in Ozone, like at the top of the whole the red line is, I forget everything now. And we would walk to this uh sushi place, and then across the street there was this tiny cafe, and he had, I kid you not, well, this won't surprise you, this might surprise the listeners, two tables. That was the cafe, and he made his own European desserts, but everything else in there was very beautiful Japanese wood stylish, gorgeous. And his coffee was amazing, and that is where I first had horajuki coffee. And we were talking about that before I hit record, and so we need to spend a second on roast that you or brands, which is even called on beans that roast, yeah, it's roasting on roast that you like. You mentioned that you've had horaju. What are some other ones that you like within Horiguchi or other other brands? Other brands. Um, there are so many independent shops that I love. There's one called Woodberry Coffee Roasters, which is in my neighborhood, so I can I can walk there. There I go to Kyoto a lot for work, and every time I go to Kyoto, I make sure to stop by um my favorite Kyoto brands and and just I I never leave a town without a coffee, yeah, without a bag of coffee beans.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Um but yeah, there are a lot of there are a lot of independently owned and independently roasted where these people roast their own beans. Um I I love to buy coffee. I rotate my coffee from there. Horiguchi is delicious as well. I used to live a station away from one, so I used to go often. But in Japan, it's very depending on what line you live on. I don't I I'm sure you know. You you you tend to just frequent the same places depending on so once we moved away from that place, which was near Horiguji. I haven't been because there are no Horiguchi coffees near me. But if they're if I do find my if I do find one, I'll go and I'll buy my favorite two. They do their their kind of number one, two, three, four, five, six. Yeah, that's how it's so it's really easy, and I'll buy my number three. And yeah, I used to always keep keep that in stock. But yes, where did I go yesterday? Um, I bought there's a great coffee place called Cafe Shozo, which is in Tochigi, which is in a different prefecture altogether, but they have a Tokyo branch, and so yesterday I had had coffee somewhere else because I needed to get some work done. So I went to Blue Bottle Coffee, and then right next, and I had coffee there, and then right next door on my way home, I stopped by to this cafe sh in Aoyama, um, which is kind of a trendy area in Tokyo, and I bought two bags of coffee to drink at home. So wherever I am, I will always look for a coffee place. And we go through coffee beans so so quickly in this place. So I'm always every couple of days, I'm always out and about buying, buying more coffee. Yep, yep. Same here, same here. We're actually only a five-minute walk from uh, I can't say from downtown because it's it's from from a street, a main street of sorts, and my husband every three days goes down to get his his bag of this and bag of that coffee. Yes, and yeah, yes, absolutely, absolutely. I freak out when when we're about to run out and like we don't have anything for tomorrow morning. What do we do? No, that's not acceptable. Not acceptable. I I tend to I tend to buy the next one when I'm halfway down because I don't even want to have that moment. True, true, true. You're right, you're right. I lie. We never run out of coffee because I don't at least yeah, I always have a spare at least waiting for me. I mean, to be fair, there's coffee everywhere here as there is in Tokyo. So I mean we could just go outside and get some instead of whatever, but you it's nice to know that you can make your own in the morning instead of having to be presentable and then go get some. Yes, it's absolutely the ritual of making the coffee, I think, sometimes more than more than the coffee itself. Yep. So I'm always if you know, when my husband, if he's up or my mom is visiting or something, my brother is visiting, I'm always like, Do you want coffee? Do you want coffee? I can make you coffee. I think it's just because I love the act of pouring coffee. I just love it so much. Yeah. I started to, oh my gosh, it's really funny because my husband, we we had a year of weird unemployment last year. And so my husband got a job before I did. And so I tried to like wake up earlier and make him coffee because I was just like, Yay, I'm so excited for you. And he was like, Could you not do that? Because I was really like making it. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, sure. Yes, yes, it's true, it's true. Everyone has their has their way and has their just it's just yeah. But it wasn't even taste, it was the ritual. He's like, I really like like that's how I wake up, is how I'm when I'm doing the ritual. It's true, it's true.

unknown 42:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Okay, so final question. Um, we had a one of our first, if not our first guest, Anna Blackstead, which has a really good food blog and Instagram account in Prague in the Czech Republic. She talked about a peak coffee experience, and she wanted us to ask future guests what their peak coffee experience is one experience that blew away every other coffee experience you've ever had. Do you have oh my god, a peak coffee experience? I've had a great many, yes, yes, that is wonderful. Oh my god, I have I think in Kyoto, where they have a very strong, you would think that Kyoto has a strong kind of tea culture, which they do, obviously. They have the tea ceremony and the matcha and everything, but they have a very strong coffee culture. And to be able to go to a legendary coffee shop where artists and and musicians and you You know, one of those kind of Greenwich Village in New York, um like the coffee shops there. I think being able to go to a coffee shop called Rokuyosha in Kyoto, which has just a long history and it's kind of legendary in Kyoto. Um and and being able to walk in for the first time kind of as an adult and not being as intimidated as I was in college. I spent one year in Kyoto in college as an exchange student from from UC UC Irvine. And I just I I knew that I couldn't go in there. I just I couldn't open the door. It was too intimidating. There was too much history there. Um, I felt like the all the regulars were were there. But to be able to go back maybe 10 years later and and walk in and and kind of still a little bit scared, but order coffee and drink the whole thing and pay my money and walk out in one piece felt like that felt like kind of a historic moment for me.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

So that and then there's also the Greenwich Village reminded me, Cafe Reggio in in the village is oh their cappuccinos. That's that's when I lived in New York, I would just go there um just to get a feel for what it must have been like back when things were good and artists used to hang out there and writers used to used to write there. So I I think yeah, there definitely something about coffee connects me to the history and usually to writing and books and writers. Um I feel like I'm kind of uh connecting myself to them um through the coffee, even though I'm not actually physically producing anything, writing anything. I'm not writing books, but I feel like I I can when I'm in those spaces. Yeah. Oh, okay. We're not doing this podcast too frequently. I think it's more of like a Malcolm Gladwell kind of occasional podcast. Um, but we we will be keep uh when I run across people who are as passionate about coffee as we are, I'm definitely going to have them on here. So with that in mind, with that in mind, if you know anybody in different parts of the world that love to talk about the coffee that they've experienced, especially I haven't tapped into anybody in Latin America yet. Or um no, I don't think I've interviewed anybody in Africa either. Any country at all in Africa. So if you know anybody in those areas, that'd be great. But the point is, there's a question, I swear. Is um, what should I ask future guests? What are you most curious about in people's coffee experiences as they like in pre- and post-COVID times maneuver through the world and experience coffee? If you could travel anywhere right now for a cup of coffee, where would you go and why?

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

How far would you go for a delicious cup of coffee? Yes. Well, you know what I make people do after they come up with a question though, which is kind of easy. They have to answer it. So you see, how far would you go for a good cup of coffee? Oh, I would go to Italy in an instant. Yeah. In an instant, and yeah, not I wouldn't just go for the coffee. I would just, I would, I would stay for a while. Right. And drink lots and lots and lots and lots of coffee. But yes, I'm I'm I'm really itching to to go to Italy, have for a long time. Yes, yes, and yes. I was not into coffee the first three times I was there. Two because I was a child, and one because I just wasn't into coffee yet. And I came to it late in life, like you did. And last time we went was about a year ago. And oh my god, I must have had five a day. Because I was like, wait, wait, this stuff is amazing. Yes, yes, yes. I know I can't even believe I'm talking about coffee without having ever gone to Italy. Oh, okay. Post-pandemic, that's gotta be the top of your list. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's yes, it's it's on my list. Yeah, it's on my coffee destination. Yeah, just everything. Just everything. We tried so many different kinds and so many different places, and it just there was no such thing as a bad coffee there. It was and we tried. We're like, oh, this place looks like crap. Let's go in here. Oh no, that was really good. Right, right, right. I love that. We tried. We tried, we tried because I'm like, yeah, I want to know what bad coffee tastes like here too. No, good luck. Yeah, wow. That's amazing. Wow. And it is oh my god, yeah, but I could go on, but I mean, what hasn't been said about food coffee and it's it's one stereotype that exists for a reason. Yeah, yeah. Well, oh my gosh. Well, I'm so thrilled that we've been able to do this. And for the listeners, feel free to listen to this and to Yuki's Geopaths Quickbooks episode. I'll have all of the information to the places that we've mentioned and that previous episode in the show notes for you or at stepguccio.com forward slash geopath coffee. Thank you so much, Yuki, for coming back on the Geopath. Thank you, Steph. That was so much fun. Very fun. I have to go drink a lot more coffee now.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

Oh, yeah, it's morning for you, so you can.com to claim your free membership and start feeling great.